How Do You Love Again After Heartbreak? Self-Loathing, Emotional Shutdown & Choosing Marriage with Rahul Athavale

How do you love again after heartbreak and emotional shutdown?

In this episode, Katische Haberfield interviews Rahul Athavale about rebuilding emotional intimacy after a devastating breakup that lasted through his time in federal prison. Following 18 months of incarceration and deep self-loathing, he had to reconstruct his sense of identity before he could open his heart again.

They discuss moving away from transactional dating, confronting self-hatred through meditation and therapy, resisting the urge to run from intimacy, setting boundaries before marriage, and stepping into fatherhood within a blended family.

Inside this episode:

• How to love again after a painful breakup
• Heartbreak that lasted through prison
• Overcoming self-loathing and emotional avoidance
• Why transactional sex feels empty
• Meditation and therapy for identity reconstruction
• Choosing not to run from intimacy
• Setting expectations before marriage
• Navigating step-parenting and blended family dynamics
• Parenting with structure, consequences, and long-term vision

This episode is for listeners healing from heartbreak, rebuilding self-worth after major life disruption, navigating second relationships, or learning how to create emotional safety in long-term partnership.

When you're making important decisions in your life or business, the questions you are asking deserve answers from the right level.

Hi, I’m Katische. I channel Archangels and spiritual beings in the light and translate higher spiritual intelligence into structured, implementable direction.  Book at Katische.com

Transcript

Transcript: In this episode of The Infinite Life Podcast, Katische Haberfield speaks with Rahul Athavale about redemptive love, life after prison, and how spiritual transformation can emerge from profound adversity.

Daring to love Again: Rahul Athavale

[00:00:00] Personal Journey of Love and Heartbreak

[00:00:00] Rahul A: I had said never to love again. I'm never falling in love. I'm never opening my heart up. It's not worth the pain. I've, heard people say things like, there's all those sayings about love. Love is worth the pain of breakup.

[00:00:12] Rahul A: No, it's not. it's not. They lied to you. Okay. That is bullshit. That is not true. It you, it is horrific that when you are deeply connected to someone and it ends, it is awful pain. And that pain lasted through jail. I know very hard things happened in jail, nothing compared to that breakup. so when I started dating this woman, I could feel my heart expanding and it scared the hell out of me.

[00:00:38] 

[00:00:44] Season of Love: Welcoming Rahul

[00:00:44] Katische Haberfield: Welcome back to the Infinite Life Podcast with me, your host, Katische Haberfield, and we are in the season of love. We have our returning guest, Rahul, welcome back to the show.

[00:00:59] Rahul A: Thank you for [00:01:00] having me back. I'm very to be here.

[00:01:03] Katische Haberfield: I know I, we talked about this at the end of the last podcast that we did together, which was back in season 13. You were the first guest on season 13, and I'll just read your bio because what I want you to do, if you are listening to this and you're like, who's Rahul? I want you to go back and listen to season 13 episode one, because.

[00:01:27] Katische Haberfield: Whilst it's not compulsory viewing or listening, it does set the framework for why we wanted to have this discussion today. 

[00:01:35] Rahul's Background and Transformation

[00:01:38] Katische Haberfield: So I'll read Raul's bio. Rahul is a Stanford law graduate turned tech entrepreneur who sold his first company to Google for $10 million.

[00:01:45] Katische Haberfield: Only to lose it all and his law license through an unexpected journey that led him through the depths of addiction and running an illegal enterprise. After achieving sobriety, he made the courageous decision to turn himself into the FBI, [00:02:00] resulting in federal prison time and the complete seizure of his assets by state and federal authorities.

[00:02:06] Katische Haberfield: Now nine years sober, I suppose it's 10 years now, he not. Almost 10. He's not only built his wealth in less than five years, but created a life purpose and freedom splitting his time between Mexico and Greece while working just five hours a day. As the founder of the P Prison Poetry Project and Prison Education Program, he's dedicated to helping inmates find sobriety through education, turning his own experience into a catalyst for change.

[00:02:35] Katische Haberfield: His story's testament to the power of transformation proving that our darkest chapters can become our greatest source of impact.

[00:02:44] Katische Haberfield: And so we covered a lot in that episode. We covered a lot of amazing poetry. Some of my friends and I still talk about, your Mongolian beef poem and we talked about.

[00:02:57] Katische Haberfield: Near death experience. [00:03:00] We talked about how you got into helping the inmates, and most importantly, at the start of the episode and at the end of the episode, we talked about two things that happened to you in terms of love. You taught us about how just before you went to prison, you had a relationship breakdown.

[00:03:16] Katische Haberfield: Then at the end of the episode. You mentioned to us that you found love again, and I was like, now that's a man I wanna talk more to, because how do you get from probably feeling your worst ever? You've just died, gone to the light, come back down. You've probably been very sick in prison after that for a while.

[00:03:40] Katische Haberfield: You've had to then look at self love. Who, am I, who is Rahul now? And then you have to be brave enough to say I need love in my life. I want love, and I'm gonna go out on an adventure and find it. [00:04:00] 

[00:04:00] Rediscovering Love and Self-Worth

[00:04:00] Katische Haberfield: So let's start the story again of where you found yourself in terms of being able to recreate Rahul so that you could love yourself.

[00:04:13] Katische Haberfield: And then take us on the adventure for there. I think unless you wanna do it some other way.

[00:04:17] Rahul A: that's it's, a fun story. 

[00:04:21] Dating Adventures in Mexico

[00:04:21] Rahul A: So when I, got out of prison I've been in prison for 18 months and what I really wanted was sex. That's what I wanted. I'm being

[00:04:33] Katische Haberfield: Fair enough.

[00:04:34] Rahul A: And so a Tinder became my best friend.

[00:04:37] Katische Haberfield: Okay.

[00:04:38] Rahul A: And

[00:04:38] Rahul A: after

[00:04:38] Rahul A: Doing that and getting what I wanted. I realized that the more I did it, the more empty I got and the worst I felt and, I, didn't like who I was becoming, right? So I, got rid of Tinder, Tinder's no longer my friend. And and I just started spending a lot more time meditating. [00:05:00] I've always been a meditator. I've always believed in meditation. I've gone through many roads. The, road that I have found myself to be on the last nine months or so, I think really after that last podcast was someone recommended I, I check out Sadhguru and so I did, and I've now done his programs and I, meditate this in this specific way twice a day. And it's done a lot to help me grow.

[00:05:27] Rahul A: Now, I, I met so, let's go back to five years ago when I was and so I started meditating a lot. One, two hours a day, sometimes three hours a day. And what I started to see was I just fundamentally didn't like me. Um, I had done all these cool things. I'd helped a lot of people. I'd done this prison poetry project.

[00:05:56] Rahul A: It was still running. I was helping inmates. I [00:06:00] found that the reason I was doing it the reason I did it in prison was because it was a form of protection, right? When all the heads of gangs are a member of your prison poetry project, you're very safe, right? There's the police don't keep you safe in prison. It's the heads of the gangs that keep you safe. so I was doing it in there for safety, and then when I, got out and I kept doing it, I realized after this meditation that I was doing it 'cause I liked the attention, right? I liked all the things people were saying about me. And my ego loved it.

[00:06:36] Rahul A: Every time I would get on this call with heads of prisons or with law enforcement, they were all ecstatic that here's a guy who not only is he not a a, recidivism statistic, but he is doing something that's helping inmates. And and I got this sense of ickiness, right? You're doing good things.

[00:06:55] Rahul A: It is kinda like sociopaths who donate millions of dollars. They're [00:07:00] sociopaths the money's going to good, causes. I, had that feeling and I realized that I wasn't I, didn't like it. I, kept doing the work, but started looking at. Why, where's this self-loathing? This wor sense of worthlessness come from? And it came from a lot of places. And those places aren't rev relevant to this conversation or at all for that matter. Many times people think, oh, I need to know why. You don't really need to know why it doesn't matter. Ultimately, knowing why is there and doesn't matter. It's there. Deal with it. And I went to my therapist and I said, this is the key.

[00:07:38] Rahul A: There is a profound self of self-loathing and self-hatred and worthlessness. What do I do? He said we can do EMDR. So we did a lot of different types of therapies and the one that really worked for me was what's called inter-family therapies. IFT or inter, I don't know what it stands for, IFT. All right.

[00:07:58] Rahul A: That's really what worked. [00:08:00] And what happened is I started to break up the shells around my, what felt like my soul. That said my soul wanted to open up and, there was this very hard shell around it that, that, that started to break. And as it started to break, I could feel this sense of liking myself, right?

[00:08:19] Rahul A: It started with a, with, okay, I'm tolerable. I'm a tolerable human being, and then I got to this place of don't need to do any of this stuff, and I'm okay. Need to, I don't need to help people. I don't need to do prison poetry. I don't need to, I don't need to be wealthy. I don't need any of that. If I'm homeless on a bench, I'm okay.

[00:08:40] Rahul A: I'm okay. Right? Why I'm, and I, started feeling this sense of connection to universal consciousness. The same connection I had when I died and, came back. I started feeling that again, like that connection was, that shell had been shattered and this connection was reopening. And [00:09:00] fast forward I continue to do all the things I'm doing. But now my intention behind it is very different. My intention now is I want to give this sense of love, this sense of connection, this sense of God call. Call it what you will back to the world because I think the world needs it. And even if the world doesn't need it, I want to give it back. So I, started to do it right.

[00:09:23] Rahul A: Nothing changed. I don't think anyone who I was working with noticed anything different, but I noticed something different. I was different. I was fundamentally different than I was. A week ago or a month ago, or a year ago. And it was also during that time I decided now I decided to leave the country. And part of the reason I decided to leave the country is as a convicted felon. It's just not a comfortable place to live, right when you're living in the us And, I was convicted of some very serious charges and I was working with very unfriendly [00:10:00] people, right? So whenever you get pulled over and nowadays with technology I'm sure it's the case all over the world, all the developed countries have it. cops have to do is they have their cameras on their cruisers, they scan license plates automatically. And mine is flagged with 30 things pop up and I get pulled over and I since I, I have, I had contacts in the jail system in law enforcement. I never really, no one ever harassed me, but it was just uncomfortable. So I decided I'm going to do a road trip or a, traveling trip, not a road trip all the way south to Chile. I got to Mexico and then, and then somebody said, Hey, you should go on some dates. And I was like, ah, I don't wanna go on any dates. And it's a friend of mine said, just go on a couple dates. And so I said, fine, I will, but I'm not getting online. I'm not gonna, I'm not doing Tinder. I'll go on dates. If, it, the universe happens to put someone in my path, I'll go on a date. [00:11:00] so one morning. I'm in a coffee shop and I see this table of beautiful women, right? And I'm like, I'm gonna get some numbers today.

[00:11:09] Rahul A: And so I literally walk up to them I said, Hey, I'm American in Spanish. I said, I'm an American and I'm, Practicing my Spanish, can I sit with you ladies? And so I sit with them and I start talking and about 10 minutes in they're like, your Spanish is pretty good. you're not practicing your Spanish.

[00:11:27] Rahul A: I said, no, I just wanna sit with a group of five very attractive women. I'm like, who's here? Who's single here? And they were like you're unbelievable And I was like, who's single? Which of you're single? And they were like. Where, so they pointed out like who was married and then there were these two single women. And so I asked both of them for their phone numbers and both were like, no, we're not giving your phone numbers. First of all, you came into this conversation on deception. Your Spanish is great. They're like, [00:12:00] yeah, it needs some help, but it's not bad. And you didn't want our numbers 'cause of us. You wanted anyone's number, right?

[00:12:08] Rahul A: So I walked away that day with no numbers. Then I just kept living my life, not thinking anything of it. It was a fun experience. I do things like that all the time and I enjoy it. and so I don't know, a couple of days later, one of the women I saw at a grocery store and I went and said hi to her and we chatted and I said can I have you a number now?

[00:12:30] Rahul A: And she was like, Nope. And we moved on. Now I'm is a city of 350,000 people where she lived, I didn't know this at the time, but where she lived and where I lived were considerably different. We should never have run into each other ever again. And I didn't live close to that coffee shop, nor did she, she happened to be there.

[00:12:51] Rahul A: I happened to be there. And so about a month after that, when I'm, looking at moving from now, continuing my journey south to [00:13:00] Chiapas, Mexico and then to Guatemala. I see her again at a restaurant with her kids, and she sees me and, I approached her when her kids had gone. I said, listen, we've seen each other now three times, twice randomly outside of any official meeting. Can I just take you to dinner? I don't even need your number. Can I, can we just meet at a restaurant? I take you to dinner. We eat, you go. And she was like, fine. So we we went to dinner. We had a blast. She was like, your Spanish is actually much worse than I thought it was originally. Your Spanish sucks. You need a lot of help. Let's start taking classes or do something. And at the end of that date, I said can we go to another date? I don't need your number. And so we went on five dates. I never had her number. And the end of the fifth date, she said, okay you, can have my number now. She gave me your phone number. And [00:14:00] that was not my plan. It wasn't my intention. My intention was to go to Chile and see all of South America and and I work from a computer I work from a really small tiny computer. And I, work a few hours a day and, that's great. And and so I and, the thing that started happening. my heart, which after that really hard breakup, what was now or five years ago, I was, I had said never to love again. I'm never falling in love. I'm never opening my heart up. It's not worth the pain. I've, heard people say things like, there's all those sayings about love. Love is worth the pain of breakup.

[00:14:45] Rahul A: No, it's not. it's not. They lied to you. Okay. That is bullshit. That is not true. It you, it is horrific that when you are deeply connected to someone and it ends, it is awful pain. [00:15:00] And that pain lasted through jail. I know very hard things happened in jail, nothing compared to that breakup. so when I started dating this woman, I could feel my heart expanding and it scared the hell out of me and I pulled back. so I, in the process of us dating, there were two or three times where I wanted to break up with her and I didn't. Because I have good mentors and good friends who said just stay. Just, everything's working. Just stay. And I had all the excuses why this is a bad idea, why I shouldn't stay, why I can't stay, why I need to run. And I, remember a good friend of mine, Eric he said, listen, do you wanna spend your life running? Do you really wanna spend your life running? I understand why you're leaving the US but you are running from the us. Let's be very clear about that. You are running. Do you want to continue doing this in all areas of your life?

[00:15:50] Rahul A: Because if you do just accept it that I, Rahul am gonna be someone who runs. I'm gonna run from love, I'm gonna run from whatever. But just accept it and be at [00:16:00] peace with who you are. You're a runner. And I, gotta tell you that I didn't like the conversation. I was really pissed off at him. I wanted to say a lot of things I love and respect this guy.

[00:16:10] Rahul A: And so I kept my mouth shut. And I stayed. 

[00:16:14] Building a New Life and Family

[00:16:14] Rahul A: I, kept dating this woman and kept dating her, and then I got to know her kids and I never thought I'd be a dad. I always thought I, I'm too selfish to be a dad. I only care about me. And I found myself falling in love with these kids. It's been five years now since, since I, Lucer, Hass been, in my life and these kids have been in my life, and and to me, they're my kids. They're my kids. And I, just didn't think it was possible. I don't think it was possible for me. I I thought I was, I was not that person, right? There's, I are those people and I wasn't one of them. And and they've never said my, my son. Has said many times to me, you're my dad. My, my real biological dad's, not my dad.

[00:17:11] Rahul A: He, said, but I just don't feel comfortable calling you dad. So he calls me Rahul and my daughter's not very vocal sentimentally vocal but she calls me Papu or Bob, which those are great, right? Those are great for me, Papa or Bob, and. When I first started dating their mom, they did not like me at all, right?

[00:17:32] Rahul A: The first guy after did not, after divorce, they wanted nothing to do with me. My daughter would go outta her way to throw me under the bus at every opportunity she got. I, remember not being angry and not being upset and not wanting to retaliate, but feeling a sense of sadness and em, empathy for her.

[00:17:53] Rahul A: And how hard must it be for this little girl to see this new person in, her mom's life, [00:18:00] and to know that her mom and her dad were never getting back together? That, that it was never gonna happen. I was that nail in the coffin and, I got all that rage, right? And then she started going to therapy, thank God. And now the relationship I have with my kids is, profoundly deep, right? My son left for college a few months ago and it's been, hard on my wife, but it's also been very hard on me. Him and I did juujitsu together. We would, go surfing and if you, if anyone saw us surfing, you'd be like, that's not surfing.

[00:18:41] Rahul A: That's two dudes sitting on surfboards talking. Maybe we caught one wave or two max. He was, he's an athlete. He can catch lots of waves. I just didn't catch any waves. 'cause I can't I'm just that bad. But we would just talk about life, about love, about dating. He's, he now has a [00:19:00] girlfriend who is also in, in the city that he went to college and, they're. One's at one university, the other's at another. And so we still talk, right? We, have, I'm my, what I do for a living is I'm a trader and I taught my son how to trade. So now this, you have an 18-year-old kid who's probably earning more than most Americans earn. We still trade at four in the morning Pacific, five in the morning central time, and we still talk.

[00:19:28] Rahul A: It is just different though. We, did this in person, now it's different. And I miss him. I just miss that kid so much. my daughter is 13, going on 20. But she's a good kid, right? She's a good, smart kid and I never just, I just never thought. This would be my life. And now it is. And I love my life.

[00:19:51] Rahul A: I love it. and my relationship with my wife has been re it's, I have a good relationship with [00:20:00] my wife, but there's times where I find myself deeply in love with her and I hate her at the same time. And I think what I've realized is the more I open my heart, the better it gets.

[00:20:14] Rahul A: The more I open my heart, the more it softens whatever the situation is, and it might not soften. You might be in the middle watching an argument. Think there is no soft heart anywhere in this. But the more I open that heart, the more, the less anger I have, right? The more I open my heart. And it is not an easy pro.

[00:20:33] Rahul A: People always ask how do you open your heart? I know that's a good question. But the way I have found that I open my heart is I, my meditation and my journaling Every day I meditate. I try to journal every day. It happens like three days a week. But the more I meditate and the more I journal, the more I'm able to open up. And when I journal what do I write? I just put all the crap on paper, Everything that frustrates me or annoys me or. I [00:21:00] just put it all on paper and I normally fill up three pages of crap and then I never read it again, right? I just turn the page and it's between the paper and God and I, never read it again, but I'm able to let go of all this stuff, right?

[00:21:13] Rahul A: This stuff that's not serving me, that's hurting me. And a lot of the stuff that's not serving me is ego. Ego is brutal. My ego wants to say to her don't you know who I am? And the real answer to that question is, I'm just another banzo on the bus. I'm just another human being trying to get through life, doing the best you can.

[00:21:34] Rahul A: That is who I am. I'm no better or worse than anybody else. And it has been a, it's been a nice experience. The language barriers early on were tough. It's hard, right? I think my English is very good. I, have legal English but I don't have the same fluidity in Spanish, [00:22:00] and so it's much harder to express concepts.

[00:22:03] Rahul A: Now if, you hear me talk to a group of people, everyone says, Hey, you're Spanish is excellent, right? You've only known for four or five years. You, speak like you've been speaking for many years. Yeah, that's great. But in a marriage you need a different set of language. And, I don't have it yet and my wife doesn't speak English.

[00:22:26] Rahul A: And my wife made it very clear, you're in my country, you speak my language. I was like did you support the guy with the Red Hat? Anyways, I,

[00:22:34] Katische Haberfield: Yeah.

[00:22:36] Rahul A: I so it was very it was, it is been a very interesting ride and one that I am really grateful for. That seems to be growing every day. Like this

[00:22:48] Rahul A: Love seems to be growing every day. If, I'll give you an recent example. Very strange thing. I don't like doing dishes. We have a house cleaner that comes every day for a reason, right? My wife was [00:23:00] like, do we need someone every day? I'm like, yes, we do. are the reason, but Saturday and Sunday, she doesn't come.

[00:23:10] Rahul A: Yesterday the, kitchen was a disaster. My wife had, my wife is an amazing cook, She has never been to India. got one crash course in Indian cooking for my mom, and she's never read an Indian cookbook and she makes the best Indian food I've ever had. It's pheno, hands down the best Indian food I've ever had. And so she and she started Indian Food Catering business, which has been exploding, right? So our kitchen was a disaster yesterday. And I don't know why I did, but I cleaned the kitchen, I swept, I mopped, I did all the dishes. So when she came home to this beautiful, clean kitchen and at no point was I thinking, I'm gonna do this so I can get something and I'm gonna do this so that she pats me on the back. did it [00:24:00] 'cause I wanted to do it. I wanna do it for her. I would never have done that before. I would've said, Hey, the dishes can stay until the person comes tomorrow to clean the house. And so that's new. That's new behavior and it, the only thing I can think of why I am doing this now is my heart is opening more and more to, my wife.

[00:24:23] Katische Haberfield: Okay. Wow. So, many things to talk about. About from, that alone. 

[00:24:29] Reflections on Love and Relationships

[00:24:29] Katische Haberfield: I have a couple of things that I just want to stop and it's a long way back, but, so some of the people that are listening to this will be listening because they're already married and they just wanna know somebody else's perspective about love within a marriage.

[00:24:43] Katische Haberfield: And we've got some great bites there. And some people are single and they're not open to love, but they happen to listen to my podcast. And some people are in a new relationship and some people are just like. Healing from a previous relationship. And one of the comments that I wanted to take them back to was that [00:25:00] first awareness that, you know where you are, like on Tinder.

[00:25:07] Katische Haberfield: And you are out there because you have a physical urge that you need to satiate until it becomes not the urge anymore. And what I noticed in my own dating history over the last 13 years is that I have come I've, only been on Tinder once in my entire time, but over the various dating apps, right?

[00:25:30] Katische Haberfield: You can go on and you can come back off and you can turn back on and it's the same faces and you're like, oh, this person is still doing the same thing. They're just out for it, for the physical sensation that they need. And I was just wondering if you so for me it's you might not see it as a big thing, but I think it's also a very big thing for either a man or a woman to go, okay, actually that's pretty empty.

[00:25:57] Katische Haberfield: And I remember myself going, [00:26:00] yeah, no, when I was in my twenties and thirties no, teens. Yeah. Twenties and up to 30. I was married at 30. It was fun to go out to bars and to drink and to find a nice person and off you go. But it became very empty. It was like this meaningless transaction.

[00:26:21] Reflections on Post-Marriage Breakups

[00:26:21] Katische Haberfield: But it actually does take an awareness to even get to that stage and say there's more to life than just that. Do you have any reflections on for somebody who is in that a lot of people in. Post-marriage breakups. They're just like, I had a really bad sex life in my marriage. I didn't get what I wanted.

[00:26:43] Katische Haberfield: He made me do this or she made me do this, and now I'm just gonna have it my way and I'm gonna do it when I want to, and it's okay for me to be selfish. Do you have any sort of comments for them about that awareness piece where you can get to the piece where it's like. Sure. That's all right. That's fine.

[00:26:59] Katische Haberfield: But [00:27:00] is it serving you? How do, you help people or how can people help themselves to get to the, is this transactional based thing that I'm doing serving me?

[00:27:12] A Turning Point Through Meditation

[00:27:12] Rahul A: So, I'll tell you what I, can, tell folks what got me there, right? And so what got me there is as I was doing my meditations. One. Literally one day after meditating I, went to my, opened my phone and, I literally felt a sense of sickness. I felt I felt gross is what it was.

[00:27:35] Rahul A: I just felt gross. I'm like, Ugh, I don't, I, why am I doing this? I don't wanna do this anymore. And I, deleted the app and I. didn't look back. And the other thing that was very interesting was some of the like the, old the, partners that I had, I was still hooking up with some of them. And and I thought maybe I can still do that. I know them and there's a connection there and [00:28:00] so I still remember it. The exact like normally my process was we'd go to dinner and then we'd go back to my place or her place. That was the normal. And so we'd go to dinner and I had this great dinner and we talked about things that we'd never talked about before. And and I thought, okay I'm gonna be okay here. It's gonna be fine. I'm gonna go get laid, it's gonna be awesome. And then it came to the part of going back to her place and. Kat, I just felt gross. I, said can, we maybe just go on another date before we do this again? And it wasn't what she wanted.

[00:28:39] Rahul A: What she wanted was, just really just the physical, the I think the, I. The dinners were something that made us both feel less bad

[00:28:51] Katische Haberfield: Yep. Okay.

[00:28:52] Rahul A: doing.

[00:28:52] Katische Haberfield: Yep.

[00:28:54] Rahul A: But she was like, no, that's not what we do. What we do is we have go to dinner, we have sex. That's just, [00:29:00] that's what we do. She's I'm not looking for anything more. And so I, I said to her was, I said I don't want to do this anymore. I really like you. You're a cool person and I'd like to have dinner again. And she's I'm not looking for a friend. I have a lot of friends. I'm

[00:29:15] Katische Haberfield: Okay.

[00:29:16] Rahul A: Like,

[00:29:16] Rahul A: Works. And so I'm really grateful for her. 'cause she had the wherewithal to say, no, I know what I want and this is what I want. And okay, you don't fit anymore. And That was a blessing for me that whole experience was a blessing. And, the other thing that was really interesting was I didn't feel the sense of rejection, right? So I think underneath all of this is one needs to be at peace with who they are. That's, I think that's the basis. The foundation of this is if I'm not at peace with who I am, if I'm not comfortable in my own skin and okay with who Rahul is, I think what would've happened is I would've looked at that as this profound rejection and I [00:30:00] would've spiraled but definitely would've taken it as rejection and instead of taking it as rejection, I said the situation's changed and now the situation that is, not what this person wants.

[00:30:11] Rahul A: It has nothing to do with me. It just. situation is not what this person is looking for, and we were able to go our separate ways. So I, think if I were to give someone feedback, I would say first, know who you are. Really know who you are. Get to know you. Take a little bit of time and know who you are, right?

[00:30:32] Rahul A: Who you, John, Kelly, whatever your name is, know who you are. Like, I got to know who I was. And once I knew who I was, I knew that this was not the path I wanted to be on.

[00:30:44] Katische Haberfield: Interesting. 

[00:30:45] Cultural Differences in Social Interactions

[00:30:45] Katische Haberfield: And the second part is when you did leave America and you were there in that cafe and you walked up to those women, first of all. I know you said they said it was being deceptive, but also there's part of me that wanted to applaud you because, hello, this is 20 25, 20 26 when you're listening to this and people don't do that.

[00:31:07] Katische Haberfield: Like people just. So busy in their phones. They use apps for dating and like I grew up in the eighties and nineties in terms of the prime of my dating is. And you just walked up to somebody and said, Hey, you're cute. You wanna a drink you, wanna buy me a drink?

[00:31:22] Katische Haberfield: Or there were cues and behavior and one of the things that I've noticed is that. It's almost illegal to do that anymore. Thou must not look at somebody in acute, they must not think that you, somebody looks cute. One must assume that everybody is always taken. And you can't walk up to anybody and say, Hey, are you single?

[00:31:45] Katische Haberfield: So I always just thought that was really interesting because you know, what, if you don't wanna date via apps, it's okay, all right, maybe my friends will introduce me to someone. And I remember in my own personal experience, people have said to me, I don't [00:32:00] have anybody that I would recommend for you, Katische.

[00:32:03] Katische Haberfield: They're like, they're my great friends. But your partner, no. Stay as far away as you can away from them. No, I don't recommend them. And I was like, okay, good. 

[00:32:13] Rahul A: Thanks.

[00:32:14] Katische Haberfield: and I don't wanna do, I don't wanna do the app thing anymore, so I guess I'll meet somebody in real life. 

[00:32:19] Rahul A: So I think that's also a cultural thing because in western cultures or in developed nations, if you will, that's like has gotten I don't, know how to describe it. It's cultures have gotten like that, where that's just, just not common, for example. Latin cultures are just warmer cultures.

[00:32:41] Rahul A: They're warmer people, right? Like in the us, if you're in New York, or forget New York, if you're in Florida and you say good morning or good afternoon to random people, you're gonna get weird. Looks like really weird. Looks like why are you saying good morning to me? I don't know you. In [00:33:00] Mexico, you say, good morning, good afternoon, and good evening to everybody.

[00:33:03] Rahul A: It's just what you do in Mexico. If you're walking by somebody's table as, they're eating, you say provecho, and it's, it means enjoy, like deeply. Enjoy your meal, and if you don't say it, it's rude.

[00:33:17] Katische Haberfield: Okay.

[00:33:17] Rahul A: So it's just a different culture. It's and, what I've been finding is I've traveled throughout the world is cultures that have, that are less held by technology, are more human.

[00:33:31] Katische Haberfield: Yeah.

[00:33:31] Rahul A: to human connection. They're more open to talking to strangers. It's common in Mexico that people in line will just talk to each other.

[00:33:41] Rahul A: Imagine In the, US or in Australia or New Zealand, people talking to somebody in an elevator. Oh my God. It's that's crazy. Who would do that?

[00:33:51] Katische Haberfield: Pretend they're not there. Pretend they're not there.

[00:33:53] Rahul A: Yeah. Yeah. Pretend no one's there. You're in the elevator alone. You're in your little box alone. To me that's just this [00:34:00] crappy way to live life, right? That's, not, a way that I wanted, to live life. And the thing is, I didn't even realize I didn't want to live life that way until I got here.

[00:34:10] Rahul A: It was one of these I didn't know and I didn't know. And then when I got here, I realized, wow, this is a very open culture. These, are people that genuinely care. And so it's been fun, right? And now I'll go out with my wife and I'll, we'll just start talking to strangers on the street, at the beach, and we have great conversations about their dogs or their whatever, and then we move on there's human connectedness that I find here that I don't find in, developed nations.

[00:34:43] Katische Haberfield: Yeah. Interesting, point. And I, agree with you. I, grew up part of my life was in Papua New Guinea. And walking along Ella Beach, everybody said good morning to everybody, 

[00:34:56] Rahul A: yeah.

[00:34:57] Katische Haberfield: and then I lived in country Australia, and [00:35:00] when you're driving you, raise your finger and you say hello basically to the person, next person that's driving the other way.

[00:35:06] Katische Haberfield: Sorry. You're like, morning. Good morning. And my kids have often said, because their dad lives in the country still, they're like. Why don't people in Brisbane raise their finger? And I'm like, because they're city slickers. They've never lived in the country. They don't know that they, it's just they weren't brought up with that.

[00:35:24] Katische Haberfield: You've got a benefit of a country dad and a mom who's a city licker, but has lived in the country. To raise your finger and to say thank you and somebody lets you in, and not to toot the horn unless it's lifesaving method.

[00:35:36] Rahul A: They must have really done something for the, horn, 

[00:35:39] Katische Haberfield: yeah, that's right. Yeah, you have to. It, is, interesting and I think we get, we do get frightened to, to talk to people. But it's a basic human fundamental skill, isn't it? Is, relearning the out of conversing, just basic, simple stuff. 

[00:35:57] Rahul A: I'm seeing, you know what I [00:36:00] like that my kids see with me is they see that I'm not afraid to talk to anybody about anything. I think in this gen, these generations, like my son who's 18, my daughter's 13, they're losing those skills rapidly. Like something my friends who have kids their age are say, and they're in shock that my daughter, she has no social media access. And her phone doesn't connect the internet. She can play Roblox on her computer with her brother and that's it. the people are like, are you nuts? That's crazy. No, she's actually a far more social human being than probably you are. Because why social? Social media is not social. It should be called anti-social media. That's because that's really what it is. It was social maybe for two years when Facebook first came out, and then it. Turned it, what it's turned into today. 

[00:36:52] Parenting and Financial Education

[00:36:52] Rahul A: I, I think, and I think parenting or what I've learned about parenting is, is when I'm pouring myself into my kids and I'm doing it, and sometimes I'm a disciplinarian, sometimes I'm very loving. But it all comes from a place of I want them to have a better life than I. And I love them very much, and I want them to be able to go into this world and succeed. Like my daughter. I put my daughter in financial education and trading school this year. School that I created I put my son in that school when, I got married to my wife and they hated it. My kids are they, hate, this is, why do we need to know this? This is, I'm 13. This is stupid. Yeah. I'm like, I don't care. Class is every day for an hour. And they're like, every day. This is, don't I have stuff to do? I don't care. It's every day for an hour. There. There's no way out of this. Even if you're dying and sick, you're sitting in a class. What's the benefit? My son is now earning close to a hundred thousand dollars a year.

[00:37:59] Rahul A: He is [00:38:00] 18 and in college, my daughter has started trading this. This month she started taking trades and she's earning, they don't, I don't tell my kids they're trading real money 'cause it screws their psychology. But they're trading real money. Live accounts. I'm doing that. Why? Because, so that I know that when I go that they have skills that will, serve them if the economy changes, even if markets change, even if AI takes over the world, they have social skills.

[00:38:29] Rahul A: They have. They have financial skills, they have emotional skills, they have skills that will, serve them. And that is coming from a place of caring and, a profound sense of, love and, what I'm the, what I realize as I'm saying this is underneath this sense of, being the, a protector of my family. It's not a physical, there's no lines out there, no one's gonna come, no line's gonna come to the door. underneath that is I love my family deeply and I want them to do the best that they can and have the [00:39:00] skills that they need in this world that we go into that they go into.

[00:39:07] Katische Haberfield: And so still heaps of questions, but in re in respect to your kids it is a very difficult thing. 

[00:39:16] Navigating Relationships with Stepchildren

[00:39:16] Katische Haberfield: To walk into a relationship where, you know there are children, right? A lot of people will just say, no, thank you. I'd like somebody who has grown up kids, they're already left home. That's easier for me.

[00:39:27] Katische Haberfield: I don't want the baggage. Which is fine, but they're also missing out on something, right? They're missing out on developing new relationships. And by the sounds of it, and the way that you express yourself, it's part of the cracking open experience is to learn to love somebody else's children as though they're your own.

[00:39:44] Katische Haberfield: And, I think also for a woman who can see that the man is not judging her for the way she brought up her kids or her ex-husband or anything, it's just they're learning to love the children. It also [00:40:00] cracks open her heart in a different way because. The children are a product of her and they, she's gonna be the fierce lioness protecting them.

[00:40:08] Katische Haberfield: So how do you, see that you were able to navigate that part of the relationship by there's these rules that say only the birth parent can discipline the, or get mad at the, child in a new relationship. Like, how did you navigate all of the complexities of a I am trying to date the woman?

[00:40:30] Katische Haberfield: Yeah. Okay.

[00:40:31] Rahul A: are dumb rules. Whoever wrote those rules is a moron. Someone should tell them that. I'll tell them, find me the person. I'll tell 'em they're an idiot. Yeah I don't know. I don't know if I did it well. I don't know if I did it poorly. I just I just did what I thought was right. Is really what it came down to. I, did what I thought was the right thing to do and what, was the right thing to do is to treat these kids as they were my kids and to give them love and to support them and to walk with them through life's challenges. [00:41:00] And I think what I learned in this process is that as long as I treated my kids with respect and dignity and explained why I was taking the actions that I was taking. For example, we have a rule in the house that. Like the kids have chores or had, my son now lives alone, so he doesn't have the chores, but everyone had to do the dishes during the day when, when the person who cleans the house left, it would like three in the afternoon. There's still dishes. And my wife does all the cooking.

[00:41:33] Rahul A: So the kids had to clean and they had to sweep, and they had to do all this stuff right. And if they didn't do it, there were consequences. And we talked about the consequences as a family before, like I didn't, I never put consequences on the kids. I just said, okay, what's a fair consequence for you not doing the dishes? they were like, I don't know. We, what's what fine us? And I'm like finding you doesn't serve anyone because. an [00:42:00] allowance. And and so I'm finding myself, I don't, that's not like what's gonna hurt enough, but not too much that you are going to not ever do that again. Like one, one punishment should be harsh enough that you're never gonna do it again. And so we talked about it and, so what we came to was son lost his phone until the next time he had to clean the dishes. And for an 18-year-old kid to lose his phone or at the time he was a 15-year-old kid, to lose his phone for two days was a very harsh consequence. And, he missed his dishes once, And I took the phone and he was pissed. And I have a project at school. And I said, okay where's the students? And I said, gimme all the numbers. I'm holding the phone. Look, get the numbers. And I texted all of 'em. Axel didn't do his chores, he's losing his phone. And I sent a message to the professor if he needs his phone, he doesn't have it.

[00:42:56] Rahul A: I'm sorry he doesn't get it back for two days. So the [00:43:00] embarrassment of getting that message from, his friends, the embarrassment of the teacher. And by the way, this was all discussed before. So though he was angry, he knew what the consequence was. Never again did that kid forget to do his dishes.

[00:43:13] Rahul A: Never. And for my daughter, it was her dog. She's well, she loves her dog. I said you, you don't get to pet your dog for two days and your dog gets to, she's, and we, our dogs are very loved, so I'll walk her, I'll feed her, she'll sleep in our room. Two days. One time it happened and she cried for probably 48 hours.

[00:43:36] Rahul A: My, my daughter. But did she, has she ever forgotten to do her dishes? No. And they were consequences that were discussed and agreed to. And the other thing I did was I made my kids sign a contract. So we wrote a contract for the dishes and the other chores. I understand that we wrote what they were, what specifically was required of them, So at 15 and [00:44:00] at 15 and 10, 10-year-old, 15-year-old sign a contract. And people are like, why would you make a 10-year-old and 15-year-old do this? This is the world we live in, right? This is how the world works. It's better to start teaching these lessons Youngs other than that when they're 19 or 20 in the real world, they understand that there are rules of engagement to live in this world, and there are consequences. there are good consequences sometimes with bad consequences, right? We created like something else that we did. My kids earned money by doing chores in the house. But, and if they saved a certain percent every month, they would get a bonus and a gift. A bonus. And a gift. And and I never, and at the end of every quarter I'd say, let me see your savings. And so at the end of the first quarter, neither of them saved. And I said, all right, this was gonna be the bonus and this was gonna be the gift. And the gift was a free vacation. To anywhere they wanted to go. I had to, [00:45:00] I had bought the tickets. And and they were please, can we go? No, sorry.

[00:45:05] Rahul A: Savings was save 35%. Sorry. Your mom and I are now gonna go skiing in Tahoe. So you guys are gonna stay here. Your grandmother's gonna come and watch you and your mom and I are gonna go skiing in Tahoe. And they were livid, but did they ever not save 35% again? No. And, it's not about punishment.

[00:45:28] Rahul A: It's never been about punishment, and it should never be about punishment. For me, it's about teaching my kids a foundation for living that is gonna serve them for the rest of their lives.

[00:45:40] Katische Haberfield: And I can hear that in the example. Thank you for sharing that. And can you, because we're coming, we've got about 10 minutes left. And I could talk to you for hours, but it's my son's birthday today, so I wanna wake him up and give him a birthday present. But,

[00:45:54] Rahul A: Happy birthday to your son.

[00:45:55] Katische Haberfield: thank you. One of the things [00:46:00] that pick one of these concepts, can you explain to me either how you created boundaries with your wife to make sure that your relationship thrived, or how did you see the difference in the transformation of how your, wife felt about herself from being single and raising two kids to being in the relationship with you where she feels, I'm assuming, protected and loved and nourished.

[00:46:28] Establishing Boundaries in Marriage

[00:46:28] Rahul A: Those are two, both are very good topics. I think I'll, I think I'll go, to the second one and it'll probably have flavors of the first can you ask that second one again?

[00:46:44] Katische Haberfield: Yes. So my stereotype and probably my own experience is a, single mom with kids tends to do everything for them, or doesn't necessarily, she's not necessarily her best because she's run down, she's [00:47:00] tired, she's busy,

[00:47:01] Rahul A: Yeah.

[00:47:02] Katische Haberfield: Has all her own monsters in her head. And as much as we say that we're, better alone, we are built for connection.

[00:47:10] Katische Haberfield: So what transformation have you seen in your wife, from being the single mom to being in this family unit and being loved by you? What have you seen the difference?

[00:47:21] Rahul A: this is the Great I, great question. So when we started. Dating. When we were dating, it was one dynamic when we got married that dynamic changed drastically. And what I found is she really coddled her kids. Obviously. and that she gave them whatever they wanted.

[00:47:42] Rahul A: And then when I came in the picture I, gave input. No, they don't get to do those things. But they've always done them. I said, but they don't get to do them anymore. And before we got married, we talked about a lot of these things. I think that's key. If you're gonna marry somebody with kids, establish [00:48:00] boundaries before the marriage.

[00:48:01] Rahul A: Don't get married and then say, now let's establish some boundaries. That is a terrible way to go. Don't do that. We establish boundaries before we establish what's my role gonna be as a husband? What's her role gonna be as a wife? What's like we, we established a lot of those dynamics. And there were things that she didn't like, right?

[00:48:19] Rahul A: I said honey the, way that the kids need to be raised is they need to have a financial education. We need to save at least 30% of our income. We need to do these things. And she's yeah, but you make X. And if we save X, then they're not gonna get the lifestyle that I want. Like the lifestyle I was living as a single guy making say $200,000 a year.

[00:48:41] Rahul A: I didn't double my income when I got married. I still make the same amount of money. But I have always saved 30% of my income. I just put it into long-term investments and it just sits there and grows. And so she was used to seeing me having this lifestyle where I would say, okay, let's go fly to [00:49:00] Cuba and, that was really hard, I think, for her to realize, oh, all of this is gonna change, right? This what I'm seeing and experiencing is not gonna be the same, we established all those things. Before we established education for the kids, we talked about what would discipline look like? What's my role in discipline? We established all of that, and then I think what was the most important for her was to see that what I said was what I did. That was the crux. He said all these things, but are those empty words or is this the truth? And so then I just did what I said. And because I have learned over the years of not to over promise, I way under promise, like way under promise, so that when I delivered, it was way over delivering, And I think that takes, now some people would say that's manipulation. I think that's managing the life that you're about to step into when you're. [00:50:00] somebody that has two kids or has any kids, you're about to step into a major life change. And if you don't plan it ahead of time and manage it properly, you're going to fail. And so I, and failure is not like failing in a business or failing in a job. Failure is you're gonna profoundly negatively impact the life of these two human beings. And that's not something that I'm ready to fail in. I will make mistakes along the way, but fail. That's not something I'm willing to do. So I planned how I was going to enter this marriage and then I entered it that way.

[00:50:36] Rahul A: And it's, worked out. Yeah. We have our fights. Yeah. We have our disagreements. Yeah. Things don't work, it's okay. That's part of living.

[00:50:45] Katische Haberfield: Yeah. Fantastic. And I'm, like, do you wanna start a marriage school as well? Because like, seriously the, how many people get married without any of those discussions? A very large number of people 

[00:50:58] Rahul A: large number of

[00:50:59] Katische Haberfield: [00:51:00] especially second marriages, right?

[00:51:01] Rahul A: marriage, so I learned from the first

[00:51:03] Katische Haberfield: But still especially in second marriages, that's why they've become third marriages and fourth marriages, and there's somebody 17 and they're still doing the dating thing because it's like they didn't get it right five times in a row or whatever.

[00:51:15] Rahul A: Yeah,

[00:51:15] Katische Haberfield: it's an important concept.

[00:51:17] Rahul A: think. What I learned about myself is if I wouldn't have gone deep and, found that I first needed to love Rockwell, I would've been doing that. I would've done six month relationships until I was dead.

[00:51:31] Katische Haberfield: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And that kind of brings us full circle 'cause that's where you have to start is with yourself. 

[00:51:43] Final Thoughts and Reflections

[00:51:43] Katische Haberfield: So there is so much there that I, think people can actually sit down and reflect on wherever you are in that stage of, in your stage of life there's something there that you can just take away and journal on or think out loud with a cup of tea or whatever about how can I see myself and Rahul, how am I different and what is there for me to

[00:52:08] Katische Haberfield: take away and implement and what is there for me to discard because our lives are all different. But fundamentally, thank you so much for just being so open about your journey.

[00:52:21] Katische Haberfield: Thank you, Rahul, for a second time. Thank you for coming on the podcast and we wish you all the very best with all of your endeavors and love and life.

[00:52:30] Rahul A: Thank you. This was fun.

[00:52:33] ​