Midlife Spirituality: How Yoga and Yoga Therapy can help with Perimenopause and Menopause with Jane Macpherson

What does spirituality and the stages of a woman's life have to do with a podcast about reincarnation? A lot actually, because we need to focus on the present moment, and a lot of men and women have a spiritual awakening that accompanies the changes in the physical body and emotions at the stages of perimenopause and menopause and andropause.

This bonus episode was recorded back during COVID-19 Lockdown under the format of "Conversations with Katische" but has a great advice for anyone dealing with the changes that mid life has for us. (Yes I say 2000, 2001- which is ironic because I was living in London in 2000 and visited Jane and Campbell then).

Join me for a wonderful conversation with Author, Yoga Therapist (British CNHC accredited) and Senior Yoga Teacher (500 hours IYTA accredited), Jane Macpherson.

Chapters:00:00 Life update from Katische00:10:01 Introduction to Jane Macpherson00:11:54 Antidepressants, HRT and or Yoga Therapy 00:13:04 What is Yoga Therapy

Heard of spirit releasement therapy? Katische goes one step further and examines the invisible blocks at the Soul level which can involve all forms of obstructions targeted at the divine feminine and masculine expression. Check out SORT Therapy at katische.com

The Sorting Vest Visualisation

Listen all the way until the end for a special activation gift from Archangel Zadkiel. Don't forget to tune into our special season where Katische and Archangel Zadkiel teach us about Spirit Animals through channeled messages.

Podcaster?- host with Buzzsprout
Buzzsprout is my podcast host of choice! 3 years in podcasting has led me to Buzzsprout!

Dreaming of becoming a published poet o
Submit poetry Soulful Poems 4: An Anthology for Activating Inner Mental Wealth.

Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.

Hi, I'm Katische Haberfield MBus(Mtkg), Clinical Hypnotherapist CHt. IPHM.
Host of The Infinite Life with Katische Haberfield podcast.Direct Channeler of Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine Energies.

I help you through my skills as a:

• Direct Channeler of Divine Feminine and Divine Masculine Energies.
• Clinical Hypnotherapist. Cht, IPHM.
• Past Life Regression Therapist
• Soul Obstruction Removal Specialist
• Financial Independence and True Wealth Consultant (Spiritual Approach)
• Student of Exploring the Soul and Consciousness

Find out more about Katische and book sessions at https://katische.com/

Connect with and follow Katische on Facebook, LinkedIn, Goodreads, YouTube and Amazon

Transcript

0:00

Welcome to the Infinite Life Podcast. I'm your host, Katische Haberfield. This podcast is a journey of discovery as we learn how the soul evolves over various incarnations to understand all about the complexities of being a human being who has to bravely navigate viewing life as a non dualistic struggle between good and evil through consciousness raising experiences that test our valor. Welcome back to the Infinite Life Podcast. It's been a while, folks. For the next few episodes, I'm going to be pulling some content from the vault. And you may listen to these episodes and think, What has this got to do with past life regression, past lives, future lives, spirit releasement therapy, ghosts, and all the things that have been on the past 102 episodes? And the answer is, nothing. And everything. You see, at the moment I'm on a pause, re evaluating where I want to take the podcast as a result of a number of things that have happened in my life. And there's a common theme here. The last four years I have been focusing on the past at the same time while trying to live in the present. At the same time while trying to raise two children. And what I found is that My spiritual questions began happening at a period of time in my life where there was great physical change, which was perimenopause. I'm now the other side, well, of menopause. When you read and listen to some of the works of Clarissa Pinkola Estes, there are major, major changes that happen spiritually and physically and emotionally to a woman as she transitions from through her life giving cycle. So, pause this after you've stopped having periods and sit down here and close your eyes, but it's better to just imagine an angel outside my window. A good sign. I'm two years past having my period, which is early, I think. Forty eight I am. But there's been a major, major emotional changes and I know how much my life changed after perimenopause. That's when I started going into sound healing, getting interested in crystals, doing spiritual training. And since posting the last season of the podcast, quite frankly, my life changed so much due to changes in abilities spiritually that I have not been able to navigate yet. And so I had to shut it all down. And I started to have I had visions that were so disturbing that I couldn't deal with it. And at the same time I started dealing with the most extreme form of anxiety I've ever had. Now, a lot of it was due to the fact that I was spending so much time looking at and trying to answer the questions of why, to do with my own past lives and clients past lives. But the other thing that I wasn't taking into consideration was the extent to which I was living in other timelines for my work and not taking care of myself in the here and now. And it all culminated in a massive, massive, massive panic attack in which I presented myself to the emergency room to deal with it. Since then, which has been a couple of months, I've been taking immaculate care of myself. Going to the doctors, getting all checked out confirming that I'm in the stage of life for menopause, taking some supplements for anxiety, and going back to some of the basics, which have been about breath, meditation, revisiting a little bit of Buddhism, Zen Buddhism and Tibetan Buddhism. If you go back to episode one, you'll find that Tibetan Buddhism is the very first episode. Bye! And trying to understand the difference between when we live in the present moment and when we ask too many questions about the past moment. But also holding space for the paradoxes of all that and understanding emotionally how that has affected me at a stage in life when many, many, many women start to question themselves. And also many, many women start to experience things that they've never experienced before, spiritually speaking. So what I wanted to do with this episode was to take you back to a time before this podcast existed, because there's a really valuable messages in this episode. And before I started podcasting, I started doing a little bit of podcasting just in video format for Facebook I called it conversations with Katish. And Today's episode is from the year, I think it's 2000 or 2001 with Jane McPherson. And I just wanted to let you know that. The information from this podcast discussion that was recorded back in 2000 or 2001. Jane and her husband then used for a chapter. In their book, you part to thriving in the second half of your life. So you can go and Google that one on Amazon. It's you part two thriving in the second half of your life. And Jane McPherson. Who is a yoga therapist and teacher. And Campbell MacPherson, her husband, who is a award-winning author of the change catalyst and a change management consultant. Amongst many other things. They wrote this book together. And Jane took the notes that she took from the recording of the episode that you're about to hear and then reconfigured it and turned it into a chapter in you. Part too about menopause. So you might want to go and grab a copy of that book. And actually see how she used it in her book. If you want to find out more information about Jane you can head to her Facebook page or her website or her Instagram. Jane McPherson. Yoga is her Instagram and her website is Jane McPherson, yoga.co. Dot UK and you can find more information about her there. And I wanted to share this today because she answers a lot of questions that I had back then about perimenopause, when I was in perimenopause, and menopause that are relevant to me today. And I just wanted to put out there that I think this podcast is probably going to evolve so that it encompasses a whole lot more information, not just about who we have been, but about why we are as human beings and why we seek to learn and understand the whys and the hows about who we are and what some of the challenges of this life are, as well as the past lives. So I'd be really keen to hear a couple of things. One is, does that excite you? What would you like to see covered on this podcast? And also importantly, are you a woman? Who experienced intense changes with spiritual gifts at the time of either perimenopause or menopause. Because I think that's something that is really important. Because in this lifetime the conversations are opening up about changes in emotions and the body and how they affect our physical life. The changes that we make in our life and also our spiritual journey. Also, If you go back and listen to the previous episode that I had with Vedic astrology, we talk about what happens when you turn 50 and the importance of that in Vedic astrology. So I think it's kind of weaving in to the whole piece. It's about what's, this podcast is actually about what it's about to be human. And so if you are not a female, but if you're a male, you may also like to listen to the words of this episode. to think about the changes that the male body goes through during the same period of time, between the ages of 40 and 60. Just as the female goes through massive changes, so does the male. And particularly with the pituitary gland and testosterone and hormones, which create major changes. So if you're a male, and you are listening to this podcast, or watching this podcast, to our channel. Did you have significant spiritual awakenings or heightened emotions that caused you to question everything about who you are in this life, who you've been in a previous life, what is the future holding for you? Because There are insights in some poses that whilst Jane talks about yoga therapy and yoga poses, yoga nidra for females, there's a lot there that can be interpreted and understood for males as well who are dealing with changes in perceptions of themselves and the world and the way that things are around them. So look through some of the comments about mindfulness and breath work and rest and the importance of rest for yourself as a soul. to see what messages come through. I'd love to hear if this resonates with you and thank you once again for taking the time to join me on this exciting, sometimes scary path to navigate what it is to be a human living right now and in multiple lifetimes all at once. Namaste. Welcome to today's interview with Jane McPherson. She's coming to us live from the United Kingdom. Jane, thank you very much for your time today. I appreciate it's the start of your Sunday in the UK and you're still in a form of lockdown over there. So I appreciate you taking your time out of your, your routine to speak with us today. Now Jane is a. Senior yoga teacher who has had over 15 years, more than 15 years, I'm sure now, Jane. Mm hmm. Experienced as a yoga teacher and she's a qualified yoga therapist as well. So I met Jane a long time ago in Sydney when we were both at totally different stages in our lives. And Jane has gone from the corporate world into the world of yoga and has a lot of experience in helping women in the United Kingdom and around the world learn to take care of themselves and learn to take time and become more mindful learn how to incorporate mindful, mindfulness meditation into their life and learn to take up a yoga practice. Now, Jane. A lot of your clients what age group are they in? The majority of my clients are in their, I would say, well, it does vary actually, at the moment in this online world I have a lot of varied ages so, but I would say the majority of my yoga therapy clients would be in their, from their sort of 40s up to their 80s actually. Okay, wow. So, yeah, women and men. But yes, probably the majority of them would be. And I've had a lot of women who have approached me because they are having these whether it be hot flushes or panic attacks, perhaps a depression joint, joint pain. pain things like that. Headaches, all sorts of things, which they couldn't really, well, they went to the doctors and the doctors are like saying, well, you can have an antidepressant or I can put you on HRT. But, you know, there was a sort of degree of despair really, because a lot of the women that I know and work with they wanted to take a little bit more control of their health. and their wellbeing and didn't want to rely on a pill for them to do that. So, so consequently the, the, this, this is an area that I've always been really, really interested in myself and the perimenopause and menopausal time in a woman's life. I've worked, A lot because yoga does, can help us on the physical level as well as the mental and the emotional level. And to a degree on the spiritual level, depending on where you are in your world, in your life. So, so, yeah. So mixture. Mixture, really. And so can you explain yoga therapy a little bit to me please? And how, how yeah. Somebody comes to you for yoga therapy and, and how, how it worked. So yoga therapy is, you're probably aware of yoga, yoga being, you know, well, if you look at Instagram, it looks like you tie yourself up looking like a pretzel and in the, in the latest gear. That's not what yoga is. Yoga is a series of poses to help the body release tension and tightness. And to repair and to heal maybe an injury or to strengthen an area that's weak or to produce, you know, to, to develop flexibility in an area that's very tight. So that's one part of yoga. Then there's the breathing part of yoga, which is using breathing. different breathing techniques to help produce a balance in the body. So for instance, if someone comes to me and they're very anxious, their breath tends to be quite shallow and quick and rapid. And so to bring someone's breath down into the lower part of the body, for instance, to lengthen the breath, things like this, these are yogic techniques to help them to come to a sense of balance. Then there's also the, the mindfulness. I'm sure you've heard of mindfulness. Everyone's heard of mindfulness. It's basically meditation. And you know, vis a vis meditating for thousands of years, it's to bring the, this busy mind that we have. And, you know, in menopause, you know, we wake up in the middle of the night thinking about all sorts of things. You know, we have this sort of rumination that goes on and it seems to be much worse at night. So, So that you, so meditation can help calm and to quieten a really sort of busy, chatty mind. So, so it's using, so sorry. So that's what yoga is and what yoga therapy does. It's sort of cherry picks bits of those different techniques depending on what the individual wants. So it's always done on a, more on a private basis on a one to one basis rather sometimes in smaller groups, but I, I only work on a, on a one to one basis and I will, I've got all this like toolbox, if you like, of yogic tools of techniques that I will then go, okay, that will be great for this person. That pose will be really good. That breathing technique would be great. This meditational visualization would be great. So, so I sort of put together a tailored practice for this person they are in control of and they take that away and they do it themselves and they, and then we, you know, we check in and that's what yoga therapy does. So it's sort of, it works at the physical, the mental, the emotional. You know, and the spiritual level as well for, but for the individual. And do you do that only in person or in this environment, are you now doing that online as well? It's I do it now online as well. I am quite, I mean, whereas before I would obviously see clients face to face I do still see clients online. It tends to be people that I know and people that know me. I have had a couple of new clients and also, I'd actually, personally, from an ethical point of view, I feel that the online the online platform is not ideal sometimes for some people. So if someone, for instance, has severe depression, for instance. Or addiction or something like that. It's very, very difficult to, in some cases, to, to actually, it doesn't really work with online. Similarly, some of my clients are older and they're having some issues with some tech, you know, some tech issues, so. Yeah, okay. And I know that, for example anxiety and panic attacks seems to be probably the most common association with perimenopausal menopausal transition aside from hot flushes. And you mentioned breathing and mindfulness. Often when we're in the middle of an anxiety attack, though, it's very hard to be mindful, isn't it? Because you're It's really hard. It's impossible. It's impossible. So what yoga does, I mean, It's really hard. Breathing techniques and meditation techniques don't have to be done sitting cross legged on the top of the Himalayan mountain. You know, I do a lot of breathing, moving meditation. So, so if soon if you, if someone is very anxious, so if you, if you're, if you're suffering from You know, wondering what's going to happen with the kids with your mom, you know, we're right in the middle of all this You know, we've got elderly parents here because we're you know, they're getting older and living longer and then we've got the kids as well you know, we're stuck in the middle, you know, the head can be full of stuff And so to ask someone in that case just sit down cross leg close their eyes and meditate is impossible. So I get people moving as soon as you bring someone into the body. And you actually notice how the body is moving and you notice how the breathing is synchronized with the movement of the body That has an effect of bringing you into the present moment. And that's what yoga is all about I mean Prasanjali said yoga is that is to calm the chattering of the mind and that's what it is Yeah, so, you know, yeah So I know a lot of women including myself find that that sort of middle of the night is the time when suddenly you might bolt awake with a hot flush. Maybe that's what's jolted you awake, but your, your heart's racing and then your mind's also suddenly racing and you can get quite panicky. So given that you're usually. In the dark and you've got family around, but you're desperately feeling panicky. How do you suggest that you incorporate movement in the middle of the night? What, what sort of tips can you give people to get into their body? Yeah, it's because that's the last place you are when that happens. You know, you're not in the body. Your mind is in the future or it's in the past and it's, yeah, as I say, it does seem to be heightened, doesn't it, when it's dark and quiet. I would, well, I, I give a lot of my clients little, little movement as in they will sit upright in bed. Yeah. And they might, they might just, you know, Check in with how the body's feeling, you know, and just do a little bit of movement. But the main thing is if you're in bed, some people find it very beneficial to get up and to go downstairs, make a nice cup of herbal tea, not caffeinated tea. And, and just, you know, and do a little bit things like restorative yoga is extremely beneficial. So menopausal, perimenopausal women I, I think the, The effect of rest and I don't mean sleep I mean rest is hugely underestimated And so my I say to my clients first of all, don't worry if you wake up in the middle of the night That's what happens. That whole myth about you go to sleep and you should sleep a solid eight hours. It's a myth. And you know, we have the deep sleep cycle, I get on to insomnia and sleep. It's a whole different, well, it's not a different subject actually because this is what we're suffering from. But you know, there are sleep cycles and as we get older and the hormonal changes that we're going through it affects our sleep So it's okay. First of all to feel like that So the second thing is given that it's okay to feel like that Then just accept that there may be area times in your day if you can where you take some rest and just because you're not asleep doesn't mean to say you're not resting and actually sometimes it's more restful sit you know doing a restorative pose with your legs up the wall or or lying back on some cushions with a lovely eye pillow on your eyes and focus on your breathing and focusing on where there's tension in your body and just letting all that go. That is more restful than lying awake in bed tossing and turning thinking about all these things. So I always say to my clients, first of all, don't worry. Secondly, if you want to get up, get up and put yourself in a restorative yoga pose. And it can be with the legs up the wall and you can feel your spine and you can move around a little bit, you know, and I do things like breathing meditation, guided meditations yoga nidra, yoga nidra is. Are you familiar with yoga nidra? Not yoga nidra, no. Okay, yeah, so it's a guided profound relaxation technique That takes you into your subconscious and so I do guided. Yoga nidra I've got a couple on my website if you just want to go in and check it out And it's just having something so the mind can focus on Something so whether it's my voice going on about the guided meditation or whether it's focusing on your body, lying in the floor with maybe some lovely music or the eye pillow. It's just being able, because the mind needs to focus on something. To say you need to clear your mind is impossible. Yeah. It's like harnessing the wind. But if you have something, your body, your breath, a meditation, someone else's voice, the music, whatever it is. That's all good. So that just takes you out of these, this whirring of something that's in the past or something that's in the future and brings you into the present. Yes, that answers your question. Yeah, it does answer my question. Thank you. Yeah, I know that a lot of people do feel shame when they wake up and they haven't had that full sleep. And it kind of becomes a, A catch cry, doesn't it? I'm so tired. And so, we feel a bit shamed by it, so it's good to hear someone else say, It's alright, you need to It's okay. Yeah. And by the way, don't get me started on Fitbits. You know the Fitbit thing that you wear, which monitors your sleep? Don't wear it. Yeah. Because that just adds to the neurosis. Yeah. Great. You'll get up and go, Oh, look, there's a lot of spikes in this, in my night. Well, actually it's because you moved. We move when we're asleep, but the Fitbit then go, Oh, she's awake. And that just adds to the neurosis. So yeah. Don't do that. Yeah. Get rid of that. Yeah. I don't have one, but complete sense to me because the more you obsess about how little sleep you get, the that's what your brain is focusing on. I find that I have to give my. I've been learning to give myself permission to, to rest more and to take naps and to expect uber levels of productivity. So and that's quite a big mindset change because I mean, I was brought up, brought up in the, from with parents who were always achieving and always doing things and you did the jobs first before anything else. And then after all the jobs. could relax. And I frequently have to remind myself that it's okay if nothing gets done today, but you've had a nap, or you've put some relaxing music on, or you've just given yourself a down time. Absolutely. And it's only about, I mean, when I feel tired, I'll take about 20 minutes. That's it. 20 minutes in, and I have a slump, I think a lot of people do, you know, three, four o'clock and I just lie down and just do some breathing, go into a restorative yoga pose for 20 minutes. And that's actually enough for you to recharge. Doesn't take a lot. So, yes, but you're right, I think there is this, this guilt that we should be always on the go, you know, getting all the jobs done and, and who cares if the ironing doesn't get done, frankly. Yes, I haven't inherited it. As you can see from my wardrobe. I don't, the only thing we own that needs ironing are the boys school shirts, that's it. Exactly. Oh, that's all fine. Just the front as well is fine. That's it, that's right. Now a question for you about cycles in terms of menstruation and some people, like for me, the first time, Going into perimenopause was the I went from well I was originally on a, on a marina and then I decided to take that out because I've been single for so long it was ridiculous to have something in there managing my hormones when there was no use for it anyway. But I went It's from being regular after getting that all out of my system to then being completely irregular. Having almost no period, but then going through a lot of people know that I went through a cycle of absolute flooding. So I'm wondering if and if you could explain to me again and possibly the restorative yoga techniques would be the best if you're experiencing irregular menstrual cycles or a new cycle, that's really painful or really heavy in the bleeding when it changes in your cycle, often you don't feel like exercising because you have reduced energy levels. So how can yoga help and some poses to help with our cycle if we're experiencing cramping or excess blood or anything like that? Okay the first thing is recognizing that your energy is low and that's what yoga helps you do. It's called Santosha. It's the ability to accept what's going on. Okay. And that's really tough. You know, when you're going, when you're starting with perimenopause, you know, it's a start of when we are not able to have children anymore, and that can have, you know, quite a lot of emotional and psychological effects on us. So that's the first thing, is that this is happening to us, and it's okay, and it happens, and it's very normal. natural and normal to feel like that. So that's the first thing. And the second thing, yes, there are, I wouldn't, so if you are having heavy flows and flooding, the last thing you are going to feel like doing is a strong Ashtanga yoga practice or Vinyasa, strong power flow and stay out of the hot yoga. By the way, paraphernomals or women should not, should really, really avoid the hot yoga. Why would you want to make yourself hotter? And you know, hot yoga is really, really popular. And And I just, I've, I've done some hot yoga, and you know what, it's just like, it made me hotter. It didn't make me cooler, it made me so much hotter and miserable. So, but of course, it's up to any individual, but if you are getting hot flushes, I would maybe stop that for a while. So, there are, yes, there are poses that you would avoid. You would avoid strong twists. for instance. Things that, that, that, that after you come out of a yoga pose, there's a release that could increase the blood flow. So you, you want to be a little bit careful with things like that. Things like strong inversions headstands and shoulder stands, if that is in your practice if that is in your practice, then I would avoid those as well. Because it's something called Aparna. In yoga, Aparna is the flow out, down. And your body is, it is naturally, you know, the, everything is, is flowing out. So to take everything upside down, you're actually going against what your body naturally needs to do. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't do strong, a long inversion. What I would do is restorative yoga. To get your energy there. It's very calming. If you're getting cramps, for instance, what really helps is to put a like you're lying down on your mat, for instance, is to put a weight like a like a nice heavy pillow or a warm hot water bottle or a warm, you know, sort of a bag full of, Soft. I've got, I've got a bag full of eye pillows and I used to put that on my tummy and a little bit of weight on the lower belly, sort of in between the tummy button and the pubic bone. It's, it's, it can get very tight and very, yeah. So anything that gives you a little bit of weight and then you just breathe into that weight and that softens all the muscles around the diaphragm and all the muscles in the abdominal area. So that can really help lower back ache as well. Lower back ache is quite a common thing because everything is linked. Thanks. to the, to the uterus and, and to cramping. So you know, again, if you've got someone at home who can help you go into a child's pose. And then again, put this pillow or this weight or a hot water bottle on your lower back. Just by breathing, interestingly, because the diaphragm is linked to the muscles in the lower back, just by lying on your back, taking your hands onto your tummy and breathing into your hands, means you're bringing that breath down into the lower part of the of the body. And you're using the diaphragm. So I don't want to get too anatomical with you, but if you start to use the diaphragm, which is linked to your lower ribs, which is linked to your lower back, As the diaphragm, as you breathe in and out, you'll feel your lower back, relax and release. Okay. So it, yeah. Is that helpful? Yeah. Mm-Hmm.. Yep. Yeah. But you know, sometimes, yeah. The only thing I would say is sometimes if you're feeling lack of energy, yes, resting is important, but there's a lit, there's a difference between lack of energy because you really are feeling very tired and there's lack of energy.'cause you can't, you're just feeling very, not lazy is the wrong word, but very slothful. You're sort of like, Oh, do you know what? I can't be bothered. I'm going to sit on that sofa and, and, and just collapse. Sometimes doing a bit of yoga that brings energy up can be a good thing as well. So just, you know, just bringing the arms up and doing a couple of, you know, triangle poses or warrior poses, or just, just feeling the energy come up and think about energy coming up, which will then. Give you more energy at a time when perhaps you're feeling a little bit sluggish. That's the word people sluggish That would probably that that so it's it's it's really connecting of how you're feeling You know is my energy low because frankly I didn't sleep last night in which case absolutely Rest go into a restorative yoga pose or is it is my is my energy slow because frankly I haven't moved a lot in the last week and I need to get everything moving. Do you see what I mean the difference? Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's all about being connected. Yes. And I think that for me personally to perimenopause brings us into a lot more awareness of our cycles and sort of how we might fluctuate in energy during the month, which we may have never paid attention to before. So I guess I, I'm sort of doing a lot more exploring about that because it was sort of like, I'd never paid attention to anything other than when I had a bleed. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And that was the only time in the month that I considered it. And I've been listening to a few podcasts and things recently where they'd be like, well, no, actually you need to understand how, you Your entire system has energy during the month. And I was like, Oh, Changes all the time. It changes all the time. I am I what I am when I was trained to be a yoga therapist I had this wonderful teacher and I remember her saying there was a big circle She did a huge sort of put a big ribbon and made a big circle and divided it into four into summer, winter, spring, and autumn, and she said, okay, where you are in your cycle, I'd like you to stand in which quadrant you are. So you know, some people are at the beginning of their cycle, so they would be in spring, and then mid cycle, summer, and so on, so on. And it was very interesting. Now, she said, okay, all you women who are in that perimenopausal stage, where, where do you think society insists you stay? And of course it's summer. It's like the energy is up there and everything's fantastic. And you're feeling bonny and bright and bright eyed. And, and actually it's the last thing you want to be, you know, and it's actually recognizing that we have, we go through these different Seasons, if you like, in our cycle of how we feel. And I think it is really, really important. So if we're in winter and we're feeling, you know, we want to just want to curl up in a little ball and we just want to wrap ourselves up and, and then that's okay. That's okay. And then other times we will feel in the summer and that's all, that's great as well, but just recognizing that we change. And every time we're in yoga, every time you get on your mat or you get into your body, you just. I asked my clients to pause and just check in, see how you're going, how you're feeling and however you're feeling. Then you adapt your practice. It's not the same practice. Right at all every day. My practice changes every single day, depending on how I feel. Yeah. I mean, just the mere concept of summer, autumn winter, like is new for me in the last two weeks in terms of your own personal cycle. So it's like, I, it's something that Yeah, I'm just like, really? Okay. Because we're just, we're taught to plan our months around tasks and achievements and things to do and lists. And we don't ever really pay attention to our energy and when, when our body is, you know, Potentially more, more energetic. And so those are the times to schedule your more energetic work. And that's, you go through flows of wanting to connect with people or retreat and you know, you do your connecting work at connecting time. And yeah, so that's, that, that is obvious to you, but yeah, brand new to me. Which is quite a revolutionary thought, really, especially if you work from home. Or you're self employed or have some flexibility with your work is to to learn to I guess, Let's not admit, but to honor the fact that you actually are a woman and not a robot or and you're not a man. Absolutely. And it all comes back to acceptance. Yeah. And honoring is the right word actually, Kateesha. It's honoring where we are and, and you know, we have these amazing bodies and we have things that are happening to our bodies physically and to our minds. You know, mentally and to our emotions, we're going through quite, we're going through the same stuff that our teenagers go through, you know, that they go, you know, when a teenager way and they're feeling grumpy, you sort of, we sort of treat them with kid gloves, and we tiptoe around them, and we make them lovely food. If you're a good mother, I never did. But you know, that's what they do. That's you do. You know, as a perimenopausal women, we're not given, we're not allowed to stay in bed. Until midday, we're not given love, you know, we're not tiptoed around. We've got to keep performing We've got to keep doing what we do and I think that puts an enormous strain on us and sometimes it's you know What it's not and then we need to actually put ourselves at the beginning at the forefront now. And I think this is why I've said at the beginning is a huge opportunity for women at this stage in our life I like to say it's it is like the third the third As women this is a huge opportunity for us to say, do you know what? You We're going through this really exciting time in our lives. We don't need to nurture the kids anymore. They should be up and off or doing their own thing. Yeah, we're obviously still going to look after our parents and look after our partners, but actually it's our time. That's why you get a lot of women who go back to university and study. A lot of women decide maybe the relationship they're in is not where they want to be. A lot of women go, actually, I've always wanted to follow more, my more creative side, and we'll maybe start a new business or start start painting or something that they, they've always loved doing, but they put that on the back burner for the last 30 years, because 40, 30 years, because they've, they've had to. So I just think it's, it's like, it's quite, it's very liberating. It's, it's, it's feminism in a new form, really, I guess. Well, Yeah, it is. It is exciting. But the interesting conversations that I've had with people when I have been establishing my presence to talk about and write about an interview about perimenopause is that, you know, there are people who are very obviously going through perimenopause and it's really obvious by some of the things that they're, they're experiencing. But then there's a whole bunch of people who are in the right age set who haven't even got their antenna. up there on the radar of what they may be going through because they see that as something that you don't go through till until you're old and they see themselves as It's not old yet because menopause and is the more talked about rather than perimenopause. And so therefore, you know, they might associate menopause as an older, yeah, longer, a lot older than them. You know, we all still stay the same age in our own minds, irrespective of what the, what our birth certificate says. And we may say feel 35 when we're 45 or. 55 or whatever, but our body ages when it wants to. And so for me, I've been quite mind blown with the number of people who are totally even aware, unaware that this transition exists because they were just waiting until the day that they suddenly had no period anymore. When actually the perimenopause is such an encompassing and can be quite a long period of transition for a woman with lots of things going through and being aware that you know, you have these hormonal changes that can cause changes in mood that you may be angry a lot for some people and that, that is not to do with that it's, it's actually a hormonal change and it's, it's, it's part of the process. I guess I remember my kids saying to me, mom, you're really angry a lot at the moment. And I was like, no, I'm not, I'm absolutely not angry. What are you talking about? I think, I mean, you're right. I mean, some women sail through it and they don't feel, they don't have, you know, all the delightful things that go with hormonal changes in the body. And fantastic. Good for them. Yep. Thanks. Most women will feel some or a lot of the symptoms and some will take painkillers and get through it and some will, it will really affect them. So it does depend on you know, on, on the individual, but I think what is healthy is that we're talking about it. And the more people like you are getting, you know, talking about it in your podcasts and the more books you read, and there are quite a lot of books around now, which is good. You know, knowledge is a good thing. So if you are, if you are, if you've got a little bit of knowledge behind you and you think, okay, this is why I'm feeling really grumpy and I want to stick a knife in my husband, or this is why I'm feeling utterly drained, then You know, it can be reassuring to know actually this is normal so you're right. You know, I think it's good if women are made more are more aware of it and whether they they have the symptoms or not, you know, at least they're a bit more prepared and You know, there's there's a lot of information. There is a lot of information out there certainly is over in the In the UK, it's, it's quite different. The women are talking about menopause a lot now, a lot. In fact, the BBC about, probably about six months ago, did a whole week where they did interviews with women and you know, the women presenters on The Breakfast Show were sharing their experiences. And actually the menopause, the British Menopause Society is very, very active here. So I think it's interesting that you feel that in that it's not being talked about very much in Australia because that surprises me if I'm honest. Oh, and exactly because I actually started following the BBC on all social media to get information. You know, you've got Marion Gluck who's who's an Australian. I mean, she's, I think she's German born as well, but you know, she was huge. She wrote that book, It Must Be My Hormones, and she started the whole bio identical hormone therapy push that women should not be just given synthetic, one size fit all HRT, you know. So, I can recommend some books if you want me to drop you a line with some books which I have found personally very useful. This is probably one of the best books, which is this one. The second half of your life. Okay, haven't read that one. This is the, she is, Jill Shorbrick, this, this book I give to my clients. Okay. Who are having, having issues. And she, you know, she, she wrote that in 2011. And I just think it's a very, it's, it, it really did help me a lot personally. Yep. And I use it, I use it quite a lot. So yeah, I agree. Excellent. I will get that book because I'm in a, in a great big reading phase at the moment trying to, yeah, information. That's just my, you know, academic geek needs to, to read. The great thing about this book and the great thing about, I think what we're talking about is that What is really quite scary, I think, is when, when you go through these changes you don't feel very in control. This stuff is happening to you. And actually that can be really scary. I think what is different is if you change the mindset is that, okay, there's some things we can't control. We can't control getting the aging of the skin or your graying of your hair or the fact that your metabolism is dropping. You know, it's like taxes. You've got to, you just got to accept it. Yeah. So. But there are lots of things that we can change. There are lots of things we can change and that we can, we can change, you know, our physical activity, we can change how we are what we do, you know. If we're in something we don't, is not serving us, whether it's a job or a relationship or a situation or a location, whatever it is, actually, we could do something about it. Yeah. So, and it's, and I think it's this, it's taking control of stuff that we can change that is really empowering. I've always been really interested in women's health anyway, plus the fact I'm 55. So I'm well and truly I'm still going through the perimenopause. But I have a very different I have a very I don't think it is a midlife crisis, by the way. I like what Jill Shore Ruddock says it's a midlife evaluation rather than midlife crisis. It's a huge opportunity for women, huge opportunity women to go from being the nurturers to And the looking after us to actually Looking after herself. Yes And I think it's and I actually think it's an extraordinarily exciting time for a woman and so When I talk to my yoga therapy clients, it's it's in a very sort of positive Let's change the attitude and let's, let's have a real shift in how we are looking at ourselves, our bodies, our emotions, ours, our minds. Let's let ourselves feel the way we're feeling. And we use our yoga to, to enable us to do that. So that's, and we really work, we focus on, you know, for instance, what's working right now. What do they love about themselves right now? And what frankly they can change and they want to change. And it could be they want to change their husband. They want to change where they live. They want to change their job, you know, women go from being in the whole grumpy old woman thing There's a there's a degree of that because we've got a little bit more testosterone now than we had You know our progesterone Well, our testosterone is going up a little bit So we are becoming a little bit more bulshy and I think that's a really positive thing, which I love Yes, and I know I am so much to cancer's dismay But you know, he knows, he knows what he bought into. Now Jane, I know that my kids are about to come home in a few minutes. So I just wanted to ask you to just briefly let us know about your retreats and what sort of the role, because people, I have people that come to my website who are from mostly from the UK and the USA, so do you think the role of a retreat plays for a woman at this stage in her life? Because, you know, back when we were younger, we used them kind of almost as a status symbol. I'm off for a retreat for the weekend. And when we get older, perhaps, And the kids got more focus, we don't find to go to them and find the time or the money. We always prioritize the kids. How important do you think it is to, to carve out time in your life for retreats? And what do you see as the fundamental thing that women walk away with after taking the time to go to a yoga retreat? I think, and we've sort of touched on this already. Any opportunity or an opportunity to, to take some time out for ourselves is essential. Whether it's 20 minutes to have a rest in the middle of the day, or getting on a yoga mat or going for a lovely walk without the mobile phone on. to give yourself some space particularly at the moment. I mean we're talking, there's a lot of anxiety and a lot of emotion out around us. And just to be able to give ourselves some space to calm the mind I think is enormously important. And that has benefits physically and emotionally. So therefore a retreat, whether it be a two day retreat, a three day retreat, or a week you, you really, really feel the benefit of doing that because you don't need to be anywhere. You don't need to think about anything. You are fed, you are looked after, you are nurtured, you are cradled, you practice your yoga physically, you do physical. Yoga, we do a lot of meditation and breathing and the difference is extraordinary. So for instance, this, I was lucky enough to get to India this January just before everything all kicked off and I had a lot of frazzled women who arrived. And the difference in those women over the week, they went from being withdrawn worried on their phones a lot to being then don't really care about the phone. Relax, sleeping better. We ate really well, of course, and they, they really came back to themselves to, and there is time for reflection. And I think for a woman to, to take some time out at this time, when she's going through all these changes, you know, we, This change requires reflection and soul searching and a retreat. Yes, you might be able to do it if you sit on your mat for 20 minutes or you're ready, but actually it, you need to sort of unwind tight muscles. You need to be nurtured. You need to be nourished with good food that you don't have to cook. You need to be able to just be able to be just to sit and read or sit and watch What's happening around you without the phone going or the kids or whatever it is, you can be absolutely with yourself. And to me, that is enormously nourishing and good for us. So to answer your question, the retreat gives you gives you more of what we try and do. On a yoga mat every day. Yeah. But every, you don't have to do anything for me. That's the greatest thing about a retreat. Someone else has organized everything you eat, where you sleep, your yoga, your breathing, your walks. Your trips, if you want to take trips, I have, I have, it's very interesting. It's like the women that arrived at my yoga retreat in January, it was like, right, we need to go to the market. We need to go shopping. We need to go for that walk to the waterfall. And it was really interesting by about, so we started on the Sunday, by about Wednesday, they're like, you know what? I don't think I just like to sit here and I'm going to listen to the birds and I'm going, I'm just, you know, and you go from one, you go from a yoga class to breakfast. then another yoga class, and then to a delicious lunch. And then you have a lovely time for some free time, and then you have a yoga and meditation, and then you have a lovely dinner, and then you can go to bed. And it's heaven. And it's heaven. Yeah, you just, it's just the simplicity of being on a retreat as well. is is enormously refreshing. Oh. Does that answer your question? Yes, it does. It sounds like also, when you leave the retreat, you're better able to cope with the work. I have to say, some people who leave a retreat leave with very different they go home and they make changes, and quite dramatic changes. Oh. I've had two ladies this year who have left, and have made dramatic changes in their lives. You Yeah, just some space to think through things. Well, they've had time to think, exactly, time to reflect about it. You're also, with a retreat, you are with, you are with like minded people. People who go on a yoga retreat, they've made a decision to take this time out for themselves. Yes. And so the company that you keep may not be the company. You, I mean, a lot of people don't know each other. They come on, they, they may come on their own. They don't, maybe not come with a friend or a partner. They come on their own. So, so actually you have this, it's called a Sanger in yoga, a community that is very supportive. So if someone doesn't want to talk at dinner, that's all. Okay. You respect each other's space and I always say this at the beginning of a retreat, you know, we are here together but we are also here for ourselves and please respect each other and everybody does and the kindness and the love and the and the Compassion that is the atmosphere of these retreats. It's it's it's quite humbling actually. And do you think that Anyone can go to a retreat? Like do you need to have an existing yoga practice or? Nope, absolutely not. Absolutely not. In fact, I have people who have never done yoga to people who have been doing yoga for, you know, for all their lives. So no, I mean, you know, some retreats, I mean, I, for my point of view, no. There are some retreats which I know and they always, the yoga teacher always says this, they are for more advanced yogis. So you can guarantee the physical practice will be quite an advance. practice. I don't do that. I run a yoga class, but I split it up between people. So we all do the same practice, but the more advanced yogis might do more different variations or hold the poses for longer, or, you know, and I'll, I'll introduce, but, but no, I've had people who've never done yoga. I've also had people who have, who have been have got chronic pain or chronic illness as well. And they come, they don't just come for the physical, they come, more people come for that mental space and that ability to be still and in their own bodies to practice some meditation. To stretch, of course, because that releases tension, as I've said before, but, but yeah, people come for different reasons. You know, you don't come to my, one of my retreats and you get fed really well and it's, you know, it's all about looking after and nourishing ourselves. It's not about punishing ourselves. Yeah, yeah. No, I just thought I'd make the point because I know that I, I'm spending less and less time on Instagram, for example, but you know, you generally see people wish off to whisk off to. Barley to do a yoga retreat and you mentally categorize them as fit as people who have always done yoga as I couldn't go to that because I'm not that kind of person. So yeah, no, that does worry me about the the visualization of yoga. That is a hot, that really does worry me. The Instagram yoga is not serving yoga and it's not what yoga is. Yeah. It's not about being dressed in the best. Yoga gear you know in a complicated balance pose. That is not what yoga is about. Yoga is about being, releasing. tension and tightness in the body and the mind. You need to do, you need to do both. You need to, you need to release tension in the body so that you can, you can, you can be calm in the mind. I have lost count of the number of people since lockdown, because I've started on online yoga classes who have said it has been such a sanctuary for me. It has been really good. It's helped me. Calm down. It's helped me stop worrying. It's helped. It's it's none of this. I'm really glad I'm doing your class because now I can do a handstand. You know, it's not the physical. People, people are, are connecting to yoga, not for the physical, but because of the, the, the, the mental space it's giving them and the, and the, and the the calmness it's giving you. And it does concern me. I must admit it does, but I mean, you know, I've been teaching yoga for a long time. And For me, yoga is for everybody. I've got, I've actually, funnily enough, I've got a lady who's just joined me and she's 82. Brilliant. Yeah. Never done yoga before. Okay. Brilliant. There you go. And she loves it. I mean, yes, there are things that she finds that, and she shouldn't do. And she's respecting her body and accepting that's where she is, but you know, it's fantastic. I am certainly going to be doing yoga until, you know, I until I fall off this perch. Well, on that note, I would, that gives us a wonderful way to frame it, that, that yoga is for everybody and particularly helpful to everybody going through perimenopause and menopause. And I just wanted to thank you so much for your time today, Jane, and invite people to connect with you at Jane McPherson Yoga. I'll be at your website and you've got a Facebook page and I think you're on Instagram and YouTube as well. So I noticed that there's a few videos that a few yoga classes they can have a, have a go at on your website. Yeah. And thank you so much, Katish. It's been lovely talking to you. Yeah. Thank you, Jane. Mm hmm. Yeah. Mhm. Okay.